Detecting language using up to the first 30 seconds. Use `--language` to specify the language Detected language: German [00:00.000 --> 00:19.000] It's not a bad thing when the first concert you go to is one of the Clash. [00:19.000 --> 00:26.000] I was 17, my buddies and I had just started at Trinity College in Dublin. [00:26.000 --> 00:35.000] At the back of the stage they had a picture of their first album, with police officers running down the street with clubs. [00:35.000 --> 00:42.000] That was what was going on in London, but in Ireland it looked like it was in Belfast. [00:42.000 --> 00:51.000] So it was a very, very intense moment as this backdrop was opened up. [00:51.000 --> 01:12.000] And there was a real sense of jeopardy, there was a violence in the air, I was terrified, I was excited. [01:12.000 --> 01:23.000] In this moment, rock and roll had nothing to do with entertainment, it was not about life and death, it was about something more serious. [01:23.000 --> 01:49.000] My friends and I thought about how we could do it, to play in such important bands as The Clash. [01:49.000 --> 01:54.000] We were at the right time, at the right place, with the right music, an explosive mixture. [01:54.000 --> 02:00.000] We felt like pirates who fell everywhere, we were completely out of control. [02:00.000 --> 02:13.000] We had a fan community that stole or trampled cars and followed us everywhere. [02:13.000 --> 02:19.000] I remember once the film crew of a local station came to our dressing room before the concert. [02:19.000 --> 02:22.000] We always let people in, our fans were our friends after all. [02:22.000 --> 02:26.000] It was like a joke in which 19 people get out of a tiny car. [02:26.000 --> 02:32.000] Someone had opened the window and suddenly more and more people climbed into the dressing room behind me. [02:32.000 --> 02:56.000] There were around 50 of us, we were in a Charlie Chaplin movie. [02:56.000 --> 03:04.000] If the kids didn't have money to get home, they'd have money for drinks, if they didn't have money for drinks, they'd have money for drinks. [03:04.000 --> 03:07.000] The police would wait until we were driving across the mountains. [03:07.000 --> 03:15.000] After a couple of motels, we started to borrow pillows to make the night in the tour bus more comfortable. [03:15.000 --> 03:23.000] When the police found no drugs, they searched the bus and found about 30 pillows and hundreds of hotel room keys. [03:23.000 --> 03:28.000] They said it was theft and threatened to charge each one of us and keep us there the whole night. [03:28.000 --> 03:33.000] So Joe said, well, I'll take the pillows if you take the keys to your room. [03:33.000 --> 03:38.000] We sat in the cell for about three nights. [03:38.000 --> 03:44.000] We really got close and we just talked honestly and I got to know the real Joe. [03:44.000 --> 03:50.000] When I spoke to him before, there were always other people there, so he never dropped the mask. [03:50.000 --> 03:55.000] We talked about how we were afraid, because back then there was a lot of fuss about the punk movement. [03:55.000 --> 03:58.000] We thought we might get really angry. [03:58.000 --> 04:00.000] We were just honest with each other. [04:00.000 --> 04:06.000] He still had to fight that he was a punk rocker at an orphanage. [04:06.000 --> 04:09.000] I don't care where he came from, he wasn't a poser. [04:09.000 --> 04:16.000] You know, he didn't do anything to us, he believed in what he did. [04:16.000 --> 04:18.000] Gabi started going out with Joe. [04:18.000 --> 04:26.000] I remember how this guy in his black leather jacket, with his shoulders pulled up, walked through our little social flat and snuggled up to himself. [04:26.000 --> 04:30.000] When they moved to Letbroke Grove, I went to visit them more often and got to know Joe better. [04:30.000 --> 04:37.000] He was an excellent host who always made sure that everyone had something to drink and a place to sit. [04:37.000 --> 04:44.000] Coming from a family of diplomats, he'd brought cocktails for all the guests. [04:44.000 --> 04:46.000] He'd stay with the parents. [04:46.000 --> 04:49.000] Hey, Mick, you want some LSDs? [04:49.000 --> 04:50.000] Yeah. [04:52.000 --> 04:53.000] I'll have three. [04:53.000 --> 04:54.000] Yeah. [04:54.000 --> 04:56.000] You want to really get out there. [04:58.000 --> 05:05.000] I definitely believe that punk movement has proven that you can do what you want, that you can represent your own opinion. [05:05.000 --> 05:08.000] I'm convinced that this has shaped me as an artist. [05:08.000 --> 05:10.000] I was a Clash fan. [05:10.000 --> 05:16.000] When I saw them in Apollo in 1978, they were all there. [05:16.000 --> 05:20.000] The gatekeepers were huge thugs from Glasgow who hated the punks. [05:20.000 --> 05:22.000] The Clash had to stop the concert. [05:23.000 --> 05:27.000] I couldn't keep singing while these people were brutally mistreated. [05:33.000 --> 05:36.000] I loved them for offering the gatekeepers a few Roli. [05:36.000 --> 05:39.000] Your fans are your friends. You're no better than them. [05:39.000 --> 05:42.000] We were always one with our audience. You should never overdo it. [05:42.000 --> 05:50.000] At first, the punk movement didn't seem to be very friendly. [05:54.000 --> 05:58.000] But when the Clash started, it became very friendly. [05:58.000 --> 06:01.000] It was a very positive thing. [06:01.000 --> 06:03.000] It was a very positive thing. [06:03.000 --> 06:05.000] It was a very positive thing. [06:05.000 --> 06:07.000] It was a very positive thing. [06:07.000 --> 06:09.000] It was a very positive thing. [06:09.000 --> 06:13.000] But the first Clash album with Police and Thieves, [06:13.000 --> 06:16.000] with cuts from the Notting Hill Carnival, [06:16.000 --> 06:19.000] made punk accessible to me. [06:22.000 --> 06:26.000] It was like they said, come on, do it. It's something for you. [06:28.000 --> 06:31.000] White music was always influenced by black music. [06:31.000 --> 06:36.000] The difference with the Clash was that Trummer and Jones were inspired by people from their immediate environment. [06:36.000 --> 06:39.000] So it was a much more direct influence. [07:00.000 --> 07:02.000] Joe was good at dealing with language. [07:02.000 --> 07:04.000] He had a sense for stories. [07:04.000 --> 07:09.000] With Joe, he was more in a two-line than with others in an entire album. [07:09.000 --> 07:12.000] I could identify with Joe's lyrics. [07:12.000 --> 07:17.000] Against the establishment, against the military and against the work, which I found special. [07:17.000 --> 07:20.000] I was working in a factory at the time [07:20.000 --> 07:35.000] and I wondered if I had to do that for the rest of my life. [07:35.000 --> 07:37.000] That's why we were so idealistic, [07:37.000 --> 07:41.000] because we had the feeling that we had to fight against fame and wealth. [07:41.000 --> 07:44.000] I had to do something with him. [07:44.000 --> 07:46.000] I did as much as I could. [07:46.000 --> 07:48.000] Bernie got on my nerves. [07:48.000 --> 07:52.000] He always seemed to provoke and cause trouble. [07:52.000 --> 07:56.000] Joe, I didn't realize, was such a coward. [07:56.000 --> 08:00.000] Nick, I didn't realize, was such an egomaniac. [08:00.000 --> 08:04.000] Paul, I didn't realize, was such a pussywhip guy. [08:04.000 --> 08:07.000] And the other one, I couldn't stand. [08:07.000 --> 08:10.000] He called me a provincial tosser. [08:10.000 --> 08:13.000] Because I came from Dover. [08:13.000 --> 08:15.000] Bernie got sacked. [08:15.000 --> 08:17.000] All of a sudden, we were all on our own. [08:17.000 --> 08:19.000] Dad wasn't there anymore. [08:19.000 --> 08:22.000] And I think this is where we proved ourselves. [08:26.000 --> 08:30.000] We stayed in some shithole in Pimlico for five months. [08:30.000 --> 08:32.000] We were in trouble because we had no manager. [08:32.000 --> 08:35.000] We just sat there and wrote and wrote and wrote. [08:35.000 --> 08:40.000] And it went so well that we ran into the studio and recorded the record in three weeks and two days. [09:05.000 --> 09:08.000] London, Gallic Sea, we ain't got no swing. [09:08.000 --> 09:11.000] Except for the rain and the truncheon thing. [09:11.000 --> 09:15.000] The icy storm and the sun zooming in. [09:15.000 --> 09:19.000] Belt down, expected, the wheat is good there. [09:19.000 --> 09:21.000] And you'd stop on it. [09:21.000 --> 09:28.000] But I had no fear, because London ain't cloudy and I live by the river. [09:28.000 --> 09:30.000] I was living directly on the Thames at that time. [09:30.000 --> 09:35.000] I dealt with some of these predictions about the end of the world that scientists are constantly arguing about. [09:35.000 --> 09:44.000] Some claimed there would be a new ice age, others claimed we would collide with the sun, so that you felt like an ant and asked, is it worth living at all? [09:44.000 --> 09:51.000] Then it suddenly said, you should look forward to the Thames, there will be a spring flood and everyone would drown. [09:51.000 --> 09:56.000] I tried to cheer up by putting all these ridiculous prophecies into a song. [09:56.000 --> 10:03.000] I played it to Mick and he thought it was great. He tapped his finger on the text and said I should write a message for the whole world. [10:03.000 --> 10:24.000] We had to break out and go to America. [10:33.000 --> 10:45.000] There it says the Sex Pistols have landed here. 1869. [11:03.000 --> 11:20.000] He knew the culture of America very well and especially the music. And so we hit it off immediately. [11:20.000 --> 11:40.000] It was unbelievable, we grew up thousands of miles apart but still things moved us. [11:40.000 --> 11:57.000] He was passionate and sang every word as if he really meant it. He sang about things that were deeply hidden in his soul, he sang about injustice and all of that with an enormous urgency. [11:57.000 --> 12:25.000] I don't think you can separate politics and art from him. He didn't just ask you to rule, he also asked you to find out what it means to be free. [12:27.000 --> 12:44.000] The first effect The Clash had on me was probably the right one. [12:44.000 --> 12:57.000] You were experiencing a sincerity, not only in the lyrics but in the music as well. There was a truth in the attack. [12:57.000 --> 13:10.000] They sort of pretended that they hated America but Joe loved cowboys, big cars, and the fact that here in the bars a single was a double. [13:10.000 --> 13:17.000] So there was a lot of things they liked about America. [13:17.000 --> 13:28.000] I came out of the Vietnam War and was very much into liberation struggles. In 1976 I was very much involved with the Sandinistas. [13:28.000 --> 13:36.000] It was a very young revolution where the people had control of their own country for the first time. [13:36.000 --> 13:46.000] I was given these cloths as a gift as they carried the street fighters in Esteli, a small town in Nicaragua, to be unrecognized by the Somoza troops. [13:46.000 --> 13:48.000] I gave them to Joe and Mick. [13:48.000 --> 13:53.000] We decided to name the record Sandinista to counter the lack of information in the newspapers. [13:53.000 --> 14:02.000] I never knew who the Sandinistas were or where Nicaragua was. Joe Strummer's lyrics were like an atlas for me. [14:02.000 --> 14:06.000] They gave me and other unrecognized town kids an insight into the world. [14:24.000 --> 14:27.000] At some point the people had gotten used to the idea. [14:27.000 --> 14:35.000] Sure, that's punk, we get it. But when we started playing other things, we were insulted everywhere, especially in Britain. [14:39.000 --> 14:42.000] My favorite record from The Clash was Sandinista. [14:42.000 --> 14:47.000] I especially liked the idea that people were working for their brothers and sisters and didn't like anything. [14:47.000 --> 14:49.000] That's also the punk ethos. [14:49.000 --> 14:55.000] But they wouldn't have been my absolute favorite band if they hadn't developed and improved and changed with every record. [14:55.000 --> 14:58.000] That's the biggest inspiration for me and my band, the Red Hot Chili Peppers. [14:58.000 --> 15:02.000] Because it doesn't make sense to go on if you don't have anything new to say. [15:06.000 --> 15:09.000] Sandinista, a triple album at the price of one. [15:09.000 --> 15:14.000] We wanted to sell it cheap because we had the feeling that records were generally overpriced. [15:14.000 --> 15:16.000] The record company flipped out. [15:16.000 --> 15:18.000] They were just too fond of the idea. [15:20.000 --> 15:23.000] You learn a lot about life when you're really put on the cross. [15:23.000 --> 15:27.000] And after Sandinista, I realized that I wanted Bernie back. [15:28.000 --> 15:32.000] I still thought Bernie was a creative person and I was missing his input. [15:34.000 --> 15:37.000] Then it was either Bernie comes back or Joe leaves. [15:37.000 --> 15:39.000] So Bernie came back. [15:39.000 --> 15:40.000] And how? [15:40.000 --> 15:47.000] The Clashing was a rusty old wreck and I had to grab it and do it up and put my engine in it, my updated engine. [15:47.000 --> 15:50.000] Would you like to interview our manager while he's here? [15:50.000 --> 15:53.000] Yeah, catch him while he's hot. [15:53.000 --> 15:55.000] Leave him, leave him. [15:56.000 --> 15:58.000] Sorry about that. Come back. [15:58.000 --> 16:00.000] He invented punk. [16:01.000 --> 16:03.000] It's obviously too much for him. [16:03.000 --> 16:05.000] The Clash were like a family. [16:05.000 --> 16:07.000] Like brother-in-arms. [16:07.000 --> 16:09.000] I think the others looked up to Joe. [16:09.000 --> 16:11.000] He was like a big brother to them. [16:11.000 --> 16:15.000] That was probably because he was the oldest and probably the strongest personality. [16:15.000 --> 16:20.000] Then we found our greatest success in commercial terms. [16:21.000 --> 16:24.000] The Clash invade America. Next, off the record. [16:30.000 --> 16:33.000] People in England still hate us for making it in America. [16:33.000 --> 16:37.000] But someone had to prove that this was a global thing. [16:37.000 --> 16:45.000] Only half of the people came in and they started to riot on Times Square. [16:45.000 --> 16:48.000] The whole of America heard about it. [16:48.000 --> 16:52.000] For the first time since Frank Sinatra they had to block Times Square. [16:52.000 --> 16:54.000] It's a madhouse. [16:54.000 --> 16:56.000] He's crazy. [16:56.000 --> 16:59.000] The bonds manager, Joel Heller, denied his club had done anything wrong. [16:59.000 --> 17:09.000] Can I say that we overbooked? [17:09.000 --> 17:11.000] All over New York you could hear our music. [17:11.000 --> 17:14.000] It was an illegal mix of The Magnificent Seven, [17:14.000 --> 17:17.000] who were crying non-stop from all the ghetto blasts in the city. [17:19.000 --> 17:21.000] That summer New York belonged to us. [17:21.000 --> 17:27.000] That was a real love story between The Clash and New York. [17:27.000 --> 17:30.000] I once met a taxi driver named Jack Checker, [17:30.000 --> 17:35.000] who told me that they were completely different from other rock stars who came to New York. [17:35.000 --> 17:38.000] Their limousine was Jack Checker's taxi. [17:38.000 --> 17:40.000] He just wanted to see the city. [17:40.000 --> 17:43.000] He wanted to go to Harlem and Brooklyn. [17:43.000 --> 17:45.000] He was looking for contact with the people. [17:45.000 --> 17:47.000] They conquered New York. [17:47.000 --> 17:50.000] All the artists wanted to see them and want to check them out. [17:51.000 --> 17:53.000] The Clash was a revelation. [17:53.000 --> 17:58.000] It took us back to the time when rock'n'roll was still new and exciting. [18:01.000 --> 18:04.000] Interestingly enough, the band was born in New York. [18:04.000 --> 18:06.000] They were born in New York. [18:06.000 --> 18:08.000] They were born in New York. [18:08.000 --> 18:10.000] They were born in New York. [18:10.000 --> 18:12.000] They were born in New York. [18:12.000 --> 18:21.000] Interestingly enough, the music came in like a wild bull from the 1940s and 50s and from operas. [18:21.000 --> 18:24.000] But actually, The Clash was my source of inspiration. [18:28.000 --> 18:31.000] I did see The Clash in the Bonds. [18:31.000 --> 18:36.000] Grandmaster Flash played as the front group, who were almost booted off the stage. [18:36.000 --> 18:37.000] It was completely crazy. [18:37.000 --> 18:39.000] We called and now everyone was singing, [18:39.000 --> 18:40.000] and they answered, [18:40.000 --> 18:43.000] We're singing Yeah, and she's pissing you off. [18:43.000 --> 18:47.000] When The Clash came on stage, Joe made the whole room right. [18:47.000 --> 18:49.000] You have to give them a chance. [18:49.000 --> 18:50.000] Listen to it first. [18:50.000 --> 18:52.000] You don't do that. [18:52.000 --> 18:53.000] And the whole audience thought, [18:53.000 --> 18:56.000] Oh, shit, Joe Strummer just pissed us off. [19:00.000 --> 19:03.000] When I puked on the carpet at the airport, he insulted the journalists. [19:03.000 --> 19:10.000] He's sick. Leave him alone. [19:33.000 --> 19:35.000] Well, you tell me about life and death. [19:35.000 --> 19:38.000] Never mind who pukes on stinking carpets. [19:43.000 --> 19:46.000] There were parts of his character that I didn't like. [19:46.000 --> 19:48.000] My girlfriend was on tour with us. [19:48.000 --> 19:50.000] One evening I said after a fierce argument, [19:50.000 --> 19:53.000] You're not sleeping in my room tonight. [19:53.000 --> 19:55.000] When I woke up the next morning, [19:55.000 --> 19:57.000] she had spent the night with Joe. [19:57.000 --> 19:58.000] That really hurt. [19:58.000 --> 20:00.000] I felt really frustrated. [20:00.000 --> 20:03.000] But I wasn't the only one. He did the same with others. [20:03.000 --> 20:05.000] We weren't a unit anymore. [20:05.000 --> 20:09.000] I was always more selfish and Joe had doubts. [20:09.000 --> 20:12.000] Our success was probably getting embarrassing for him. [20:12.000 --> 20:15.000] And Mick couldn't sit in the tour bus without puking. [20:15.000 --> 20:18.000] Everybody's got their weaknesses, right? [20:24.000 --> 20:28.000] We had enough of each other after we'd been on the pill for years. [20:28.000 --> 20:29.000] We never had a holiday. [20:29.000 --> 20:33.000] Every band goes on holiday these days to get out and clear their heads. [20:33.000 --> 20:36.000] We never did that. We worked all the time. [20:39.000 --> 20:43.000] Mick thought if he didn't want to play White Riot, none of us could. [20:47.000 --> 20:52.000] I made a comment that I probably shouldn't have made. [20:52.000 --> 20:55.000] That brought the stone into the role. [20:55.000 --> 21:00.000] It was about his presence on the stage. [21:01.000 --> 21:04.000] He said, you have no respect for the stage. [21:04.000 --> 21:07.000] And I said, what do you want to tell me about the stage? [21:07.000 --> 21:10.000] He put his drink in my face. [21:12.000 --> 21:15.000] And I hit him with full force against the stars. [21:19.000 --> 21:20.000] What a blow. [21:20.000 --> 21:21.000] There was even blood. [21:21.000 --> 21:24.000] You can understand that from the musical differences. [21:24.000 --> 21:27.000] Just because Mick didn't like White Riot. [21:27.000 --> 21:29.000] But Joe looked just as shocked as Mick. [21:29.000 --> 21:33.000] As if he wanted to say, oh, shit, what have I done? [21:44.000 --> 21:47.000] Shortly after that, I laughed my head off. [21:47.000 --> 21:52.000] Suddenly we were at Saturday Night Live with Johnny Carson and Hot Shows. [21:52.000 --> 21:56.000] We weren't prepared for that, after we'd been off for years. [21:56.000 --> 21:58.000] He put us on our heads. [22:00.000 --> 22:02.000] It was just falling apart. [22:02.000 --> 22:05.000] We were never all four at the same time in the studio. [22:05.000 --> 22:09.000] I turned up at Electric Lady's studio and no one was there. [22:09.000 --> 22:11.000] I had an idea for the piano. [22:11.000 --> 22:15.000] I thought, if I record the drum track and play it in the studio, [22:15.000 --> 22:19.000] if I record the drum track and put the piano track on it, [22:19.000 --> 22:23.000] I can play the drums down, put the piano down, and still no one was there. [22:23.000 --> 22:27.000] When I had recorded the drum and the piano and still no one was there, [22:27.000 --> 22:30.000] I recorded the bass and a few percussion instruments. [22:30.000 --> 22:34.000] And when they finally came, I could play them a finished piece. [22:34.000 --> 22:36.000] Joe was thrilled. [22:36.000 --> 22:40.000] Bernie came in and said, do you always have to do raga? [22:40.000 --> 22:42.000] We asked, what? [22:42.000 --> 22:45.000] He said, your songs take every six minutes. [22:45.000 --> 22:47.000] How are we going to put that on an album? [22:47.000 --> 22:49.000] When he left, we laughed about the raga. [22:49.000 --> 22:52.000] I went back to the Iroquois Hotel on the 44th Street. [22:52.000 --> 22:54.000] By then, it was bright again. [22:54.000 --> 22:57.000] There was a typewriter in my room and I started typing. [22:57.000 --> 23:00.000] The king ordered his men to stop with the raga. [23:00.000 --> 23:03.000] I was dead tired, but this piece of paper in the typewriter [23:03.000 --> 23:05.000] pulled me magically. [23:05.000 --> 23:08.000] And so I wrote the whole text of Rock the Cast Bar. [23:08.000 --> 23:11.000] There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism. [23:11.000 --> 23:15.000] That's what I was trying to say in Rock the Cast Bar. [23:15.000 --> 23:18.000] The relationship between Mick and Joe became more and more difficult. [23:18.000 --> 23:21.000] We drove past him and Joe threw the texts in the mailbox. [23:21.000 --> 23:25.000] He didn't want to see him and didn't want to write songs with him. [23:25.000 --> 23:30.000] At that point, I was afraid Mick could throw us into trouble [23:30.000 --> 23:33.000] with his idealism and his refusal to make compromises [23:33.000 --> 23:43.000] and to adapt to reality. [23:43.000 --> 23:45.000] Mick is an emotional type. [23:45.000 --> 23:48.000] He often had to be the scapegoat for things [23:48.000 --> 23:50.000] that Joe was actually responsible for. [23:50.000 --> 23:52.000] And often put unjustified criticism in, [23:52.000 --> 24:17.000] because Joe was tactless enough not to act as a boomer himself. [24:17.000 --> 24:22.000] The Eve of a tour, the tickets in the UK are not selling that well. [24:22.000 --> 24:25.000] So Bernie Rhodes said, look, you've got to disappear. [24:25.000 --> 24:29.000] I said, well, Bernie, if you really think I should disappear, I will. [24:29.000 --> 24:31.000] Where do you want me to disappear to? [24:31.000 --> 24:33.000] And he said, well, I don't know. [24:33.000 --> 24:34.000] Go to Austin, Texas. [24:34.000 --> 24:37.000] You know that fellow there, Joe Ely, the country singer? [24:37.000 --> 24:40.000] I said, okay, Bernie, I'll be seeing you. [24:40.000 --> 24:42.000] I took the boat train to Paris instead. [24:42.000 --> 24:45.000] And I thought it would be a good joke if I never phoned Bernie at all. [24:45.000 --> 24:48.000] He was going to be thinking he was going to be acting, you know. [24:48.000 --> 24:49.000] Oh, where's Joe gone? [24:49.000 --> 24:52.000] And really he was going, where has he gone? [24:52.000 --> 24:54.000] And I ran the Paris Marathon too. [24:54.000 --> 24:57.000] And eventually they hired a private detective to find me. [24:57.000 --> 25:00.000] What is he up to and what news is there of his whereabouts? [25:00.000 --> 25:01.000] Who can answer that? Cosmo? [25:01.000 --> 25:03.000] We don't know where he is and we can't find him. [25:03.000 --> 25:05.000] And if you're listening, Joe, I said this before, [25:05.000 --> 25:06.000] please get in touch. [25:06.000 --> 25:07.000] We need to talk to you. [25:07.000 --> 25:09.000] So in no way is this any kind of publicity stunt? [25:09.000 --> 25:11.000] None whatsoever, I'll tell you. [25:11.000 --> 25:13.000] He wanted to prove that the band didn't work without him. [25:13.000 --> 25:16.000] When he came back, it was either Topper or me. [25:22.000 --> 25:25.000] I can't argue that I didn't give it my all. [25:27.000 --> 25:30.000] When you use drugs, you don't care about anything else. [25:30.000 --> 25:32.000] I was self-seeking and dishonest. [25:32.000 --> 25:35.000] And I didn't give a fuck about anyone. [25:35.000 --> 25:38.000] They have to undo my boots for me because I can't undo them. [25:38.000 --> 25:41.000] All right, yeah, hurry up. [25:58.000 --> 26:00.000] Basically, they had no other choice. [26:00.000 --> 26:03.000] You can't use a drummer in a band that is so overpowered [26:03.000 --> 26:06.000] that he can hardly play sometimes and always too late. [26:06.000 --> 26:08.000] I burst into tears, right? [26:08.000 --> 26:10.000] Mick was crying. [26:10.000 --> 26:12.000] And Joe kind of softened. [26:12.000 --> 26:15.000] He said, listen, this is not the end. [26:15.000 --> 26:17.000] We're just saying you're completely exhausted [26:17.000 --> 26:19.000] and you need a break. [26:19.000 --> 26:21.000] And if you get a hold of yourself again, [26:21.000 --> 26:23.000] you'll be back after the tour. [26:23.000 --> 26:25.000] I tried to stop him. [26:25.000 --> 26:28.000] But about a week after the start of the America tour, [26:28.000 --> 26:30.000] Joe said in a drunken tone, [26:30.000 --> 26:33.000] we had to get rid of Topper because he was addicted to heroin. [26:33.000 --> 26:36.000] From one day to the next, [26:36.000 --> 26:39.000] he had turned the time spent on a nervous breakdown [26:39.000 --> 26:42.000] into a toss-up because of drug addiction. [26:42.000 --> 27:08.000] That's when I started injecting heroin. [27:08.000 --> 27:10.000] I lived in a rented house in Fulham [27:10.000 --> 27:13.000] and slept with my dog under a carpet. [27:13.000 --> 27:31.000] I saw my song on TV, played by someone else. [27:31.000 --> 27:35.000] I don't think we played a good gig after Topper was fired. [27:35.000 --> 28:04.000] Rock the Kasper made it into the top five in America. [28:04.000 --> 28:06.000] They're not punk rock now. [28:06.000 --> 28:08.000] What are they now? [28:08.000 --> 28:10.000] They just let the stones off. [28:10.000 --> 28:12.000] Obviously, life holds a lot of bad jokes [28:12.000 --> 28:14.000] and this one was to be seen. [28:14.000 --> 28:17.000] Still, it was a shock when it really happened. [28:17.000 --> 28:19.000] We became pop stars and I couldn't believe [28:19.000 --> 28:21.000] that we had become what we were fighting for. [28:21.000 --> 28:23.000] I'd rather be a street musician again, [28:23.000 --> 28:28.000] be a nobody than carry on like that. [28:28.000 --> 28:31.000] When the clash got really, really huge, [28:31.000 --> 28:35.000] it was certainly frightening for them. [28:35.000 --> 28:40.000] It was certainly frightening. [28:40.000 --> 28:42.000] Maybe they weren't ready for it yet [28:42.000 --> 28:44.000] and were afraid that success and money [28:44.000 --> 28:52.000] could steal a piece of their purity and honesty. [28:52.000 --> 29:01.000] I'm asking you about the kind of responsibility [29:01.000 --> 29:03.000] that you feel that you've got towards the fans [29:03.000 --> 29:05.000] as a public figure that you are. [29:05.000 --> 29:07.000] I just don't feel strong enough to carry anything at the moment. [29:07.000 --> 29:09.000] Anything like that. [29:09.000 --> 29:11.000] Are you discouraged with rock and roll in general? [29:11.000 --> 29:26.000] No, I'm not discouraged with rock and roll. [29:26.000 --> 29:41.000] I don't know what's going on in London at the moment. [29:41.000 --> 30:00.000] I don't know what's going on in London at the moment.